Brad Shreve:
This is Queer We Are serving up positive LGBTQ stories. We may bring up some of the challenges our community faces, but we don't wallow in them. You're listening to the Queer podcast with the no whining rule. My guest is Jim Fielding, Who wrote a book about business, except it's not a book about business. It's a book about life. And while, yes, he bases his experiences on his impressive career, which includes being the president of Disney Stores worldwide and the CEO of Claire's, the wisdom he shares applies to people from all walks of life. I'm kind of ashamed to admit I'm not much of a reader of nonfiction books, and that's not because there aren't good ones out there, but because there are so many bad ones. They can be too stuffy, too mystical, or just don't apply to me.

Brad Shreve:
Jim's book, All Pride No Ego, A Queer's executive journey to living and leading authentically spoke to me, and I am about as far from working in a corporate environment as it can get. I'm sure it will speak to you. He certainly will. I had fun in this conversation, and you'll get a taste of how down to earth this top executive is. So let's get to it. I'm your host, Brad Shreve, and my guest is Jim Feilding and Queer We Are. 

Jim Fielding, thank you for joining me here on Queer We Are.

Jim Fielding:
Oh my gosh. I'm so honored to be here.

Brad Shreve:
We're gonna talk about your book, All Pride, No Ego. It's a Queer executive's journey to living and leading authentically. But I wanna talk about your career first And because it's pretty amazing. You had high level jobs with The Gap, DreamWorks, 20th Century Fox. You spent 9 years with Disney Stores, and you were the worldwide president of Disney Stores. And for all the mall rats out there, you were CEO Claire's.

Jim Fielding:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
Which I will say is where my ears were pierced for the 1st time.

Jim Fielding:
Yes. We'd I'd I'd say about 80% of people in United States for sure could say that.

Brad Shreve:
I think the 2nd time too because I have a tendency to let them grow back. Why this book and why now?

Jim Fielding:
Well, I mean, I I was at kind of a a pivot point in my career because, you know, at the the end of my, quote, corporate career, To your point, I was president of consumer products and experiences at 20th Century Fox. We got purchased by Disney. The co the corporation got purchased. And so I effectively was out of a job, really, for the first time in my career where I got a severance package. And I'd done so many reorgs Over my life, Brad, that I was so used to being on the other side of the table and handing that folder and saying, use the outplacement services and use the resume services. And And I kind of almost heard myself in my head, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do that, and, your listeners will understand. So, you know, I basically was done, You know, beginning of September 2019 and looked at the calendar, and it was like, I think I'm gonna take 6 months off. I'm gonna call it a sabbatical, And I'll come back into the work world in April of 2020.

Jim Fielding:
Well, we all know what happened in March of 2020. Living in California, we were shut down. And so Nobody was really, you know, working in an office. Nobody was interviewing. Nobody was hiring. And I had a tremendous amount of time by myself, like so many people did. And I started I'd always heard from people, oh, you you're such a good storyteller. You should write a book.

Jim Fielding:
I've been a journaler my whole life, and, honestly, during the pandemic, I thought I better find all my old journals because I had them in a bunch of different boxes, and I consolidated them to one place. And as I was going through them, I was like, I think there is a story in here. I think I'm gonna try and and write a book. So I worked on a treatment after googling what is a book treatment and went out to some of my contacts in publishing and said, how do I get this in front of people? I didn't use an agent, which I know is very rare, and the the rest is history. Now the book's been out for 5 months, and, I'm really, really happy with the response.

Brad Shreve:
And I gotta speak on your storytelling aspect because I left the corporate world Now decades ago. Wow. That's been a long time. Decades ago. And I want to let the readers know or listeners know, If you have never even been in the business culture, it doesn't matter. This book is for you. Jim, this this book is storytelling.

Jim Fielding:
Thank you.

Brad Shreve:
It is not a Duffy.

Jim Fielding:
Thank you.

Brad Shreve:
This is how you run a business book in any way, shape, or form. This is a book about living.

Jim Fielding:
It is. And it's And what I you know, the the unlock for me, Brad, and I appreciate those words so much, that's so kind, is my publisher At John Wiley and Company, a lovely woman named Shannon, the unlock for me because once once we got the deal done, I was like, oh my gosh. Now I have to write a book. Right. You wake up, and you're like, oh, I committed to writing a book. I wrote 10 pages, but a book is a lot more. And the unlock for me, I think that you'll understand, having read it now, is I was 56 at the time, and she said, I want you I want 56 year old Jim to write the book that 25 or 26 year old Jim wished he had when he was struggling with some of the questions in his life personally and professionally. And that became the unlock.

Jim Fielding:
I mean, it literally was like Telling my story to myself. And my goal the entire time was if I could make the path easier for anybody, Gay, straight, questioning, ally, like, it it really I that was really my goal. It was like if I Some of the lessons that I learned that I wish I had learned younger, that I learned through pain and making mistakes Some therapy and the journey that I went through, I really I truly wrote it because I wanted to make it not educate, but inform more, people who may have had some similar questions in their own life.

Brad Shreve:
I don't know. Are you familiar with the book, Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten?

Jim Fielding:
100%. 100%.

Brad Shreve:
Okay. Now that book was great little short stories that all had real huge nuggets of wisdom. Yes. Your book is a longer version of that.

Jim Fielding:
Oh, that's so kind.

Brad Shreve:
It it really is. That that's why it grabbed me. It it it was very interesting. Dean, you have lots of wisdom in there, and that's why I said it's a good book for anybody. So based on that, I'm so fond of you right now. What values are the keys to your success?

Jim Fielding:
Oh, I think, You know, so much of it is, you know, as I wrote in the book, my Midwesternness and how I was raised. You know, we were really raised With 2 big mantras, 1, the golden rule, you know, maybe do under others as you'd have done unto you, and then the other one was, feelings never lie. And It was I was just raised in an environment that respected honesty, also respected learning. I think one of my other big mantras is to be a lifelong learner and stay constantly curious. I was born into a family of readers and a family of people who discuss that they were reading, and that was just thrust upon both me and my sister at Are early age. And, and I also think we were taught early That we needed to give back, that there was always people who were less fortunate than you. And regardless of How you were feeling in your life, you had to live with gratitude and give back. And so, you know, my foundations, that kinda Midwestern Working class, blue collar family that I grew up in, I think, definitely carried me and still carry me today, All, by the way, with a huge dose of humility.

Jim Fielding:
You know, it was we were never pretentious or showy. We had to be humble and grateful.

Brad Shreve:
And since you brought it up, there is a chapter in your book that is called We a Lifelong Learner and Constantly Stay Curious. You mentioned reading. What are the things you do to keep the gears in your brain working?

Jim Fielding:
Well, you know, one of the things I love about technology we could do a whole separate talk technology, Brad. But one of the things I love about technology is your phone and, like, the Apple News Feed and, you know, all of those. You know, there's tools, right, that you don't I used to subscribe to a lot of magazines and newspapers and do it more physically, and I still miss that. I still get the Sunday New York Times. I get the Wall Street Journal. But I really, you know, I use news feeds. I use social media like other People do and dive into, like, you know, little rabbit holes when they find something interesting. I talk to friends and family and people, You know, on LinkedIn that I respect in the industry to find out what they're thinking about and what they're reading.

Jim Fielding:
Well, I mean, I think I'm just so ingrained to it now that I can learn from, like, the smallest you know, from a child who says something to me about A television show they're liking, and I'm like, I've never heard of that television show. I've gotta go look at that. What's that show about? You know, to a friend who tells me to go see this particular movie or, You know, have you seen this show on Hulu or, you know, Amazon or wherever? I'm curious. Like, I I never wanna be done. Right? I never I never wanna be like, oh, I've I've done it all. I've seen it all. I know it all. I don't I never wanna be like that.

Jim Fielding:
I I wanna be vital. That's the word I use, you know, until and I was. I'm blessed in my family on the female side with some longevity, but I Brad, you know, I had a grandmother that made it 102. The other one made it to 97. And we're completely vital and active right up until the end. And it's like, that's what I wanna be. You know, just wanna be constantly growing.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. You're making me think of somebody new once that in fact, I'll be honest. It was my dad who, when different technology would come out, he'd say, Well, you get my age, nothing is really all that interesting, and I'm like Yeah. That was really sad. The I can't even imagine that.

Jim Fielding:
So sad, and I don't ever wanna be threatened by anything. There's stuff I don't understand, Brad. Right? Like, stuff comes out, and I'm like, woah. What? Am I supposed to do that? And Do I really need to upgrade my phone and all of those kind of things? But it's like, I I like to kind of discover and hunt and pack almost and play with things, Right? And new apps and, you know, new websites, and somebody tells me about it. I'm I'm constantly playing. You know, I've had to learn how to relax my mind because my mind kinda goes. So I've had to learn techniques, which I talked about in the book, like, you know, journaling and meditation and Yoga and things like that to relax my mind because my mind would go 247 if I let it.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I know AI scares crap out of me, but I also accept this to reality. I don't want to chase windmilles, so I gotta figure out how to like it and make it fit into my life.

Jim Fielding:
And study it. I love that as an example because I'm the same way. I'm like, oh, especially by the way, I'm I I'm a person and an author that writes about authenticity, and so I don't want Chatbots writing, you know, my social post. I don't want chatbots writing books. Like, I I'm the complete opposite. However, to your point, it's a reality. So rather than be scared by it, I need to study it and understand it.

Brad Shreve:
Exactly. Exactly. You know those times when you and a friend or family member are trying to find something on Netflix, and Instead of watching your flip, flip, flip, flip looking for 1 movie after another, well, sometimes your decision comes down to the reviews. And the same thing happens to podcasting. So for those that are searching madly for a new podcast, Help them make the decision, and leave a review for Queer We Are on Apple Podcast Are wherever you're listening to this show. I could be wrong here, but something tells me that when you were a little kid, you didn't say, someday I'm gonna run a huge part of Disney.

Jim Fielding:
No. My god. I I was gonna be an airplane pilot. I was every little kid. I was gonna be a firefighter because my dad was a firefighter. I was gonna be an airline pilot until I started wearing glasses in 5th grade and found out you couldn't be an airline pilot if you Are glasses. I was gonna be a scientist. I was gonna be a doctor.

Jim Fielding:
I, you know, I went through a lot, but I never know. I never said I'm gonna be president of Disney Stores Worldwide. Never.

Brad Shreve:
What were your goals when you or, actually, how did your career begin?

Jim Fielding:
Well, I mean, you know, listen. I It really began for We. Let I started working at 13. I mean, I I have a work ethic because my parents were like, allowance only takes you so far. And so I started working at 13 and pretty much worked part time, you know, all the way through high school, through college. And I had a degree in political science with an outside field in business, and the people that would interview me through the business placement office We're pharmaceutical sales, insurance sales, or retail. Just being honest. And so I interviewed for all 3 of those.

Jim Fielding:
And I had done retail in High school and in college, and I never honestly considered it a career option. And I kept doing really, really well in the retail interviews. Like, I was getting 2nd interviews. I was getting 3rd interviews. And then all of a sudden, I was like, you know what? Maybe a retail training program It's a good place for me because I thought I was gonna go back to law school, but I needed to save up some money. So I was like, I'm gonna go to retail for 2 years, Get a good grounding in that industry. Go to one of these world class training programs that used to exist. And then after 2 years, I'll go back to law Well and what happened to me, which happens to many people in the retail industry, we call it getting bitten by the retail bug.

Jim Fielding:
I got into the industry and found out I was good at it, and I liked it, and there was a path for me. And I basically deferred law school once and then never looked back, and I never ended up going to law school. And Scott, you know, really, the first half of my career was more traditional retail department stores, the Gap, Lands' End, the catalog. And then, really, the second half of my career was when media and entertainment came into it because I got recruited in 2001 to go to Disney to be the merchant, Like the merchandiser, the buyer for the Disney catalog. And that became the start of my 12 year career at Almost 12 year, eleven and a half year at Disney, which ended with the 4 years as president of Disney Store. And Disney Store was the ultimate combo job of My retail foundation and my love for media and entertainment smashed together, and it was an incredible job. And, In hindsight, as I was writing the book, my favorite job in my entire career, and that's no offense to anybody that I worked with before Are After, it was just 1000% my favorite job.

Brad Shreve:
And you mentioned the gap, and I'm starting to think of all the other retail places that you worked in. Yeah. How many shirts do you think you've folded in your lifetime?

Jim Fielding:
Oh my god. Shirts and fleece. I worked at Gap for your listeners when we sold Sweatshirts, hooded, crewneck, and pants in, like, 12 colors on the back wall. And it had to be you had to be able to bounce quarters off those things. I had a I was a folding board maven and, pocket T shirts, oh my god, and polos. I was so I started in the stores. I started as a district manager. I had 12 stores, and I was so proud of our presentation standards and our full rainbow runs and our full stacks.

Jim Fielding:
Like, it was really important to me.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I'm impressed. I suck at folding, but the positive is that means my husband does all the folding.

Jim Fielding:
Yeah. No. I by the way, I have a a partner slash fiance now who is an incredible folder who grew up in a military family, And I literally will do the laundry because I'm one of those freaks that loves to do laundry. There's something really I love the smell. I love the accomplishment of it all. I'm not a good folder, so I would, like, literally carry the basket and place it in front of him because I like the way my closet looks when he folds it. Shameless.

Brad Shreve:
So have you had your I've made it moment?

Jim Fielding:
You know, I I don't know. Like, I mean, I never I never took it for granted. I think I Thought when I became CEO of Claire's, I was like, okay. This is what this path has been for. And that was a really, really difficult job, if you haven't been to that part of the book yet, it was just a it was a challenging job on many levels. I learned and grew tremendously, but I wasn't happy. It also you know, 6 months into that job is when I lost my father unexpectedly. And so I think there was a lot of turmoil in my life during those two, two and a half years.

Jim Fielding:
And I think what was hard for me was to think that I achieved it, And then to realize that it wasn't everything and, and what emotions that felt like. So I Again, maybe it's part of being constantly curious. I don't know if I ever wanna have that moment where I was like, I can't do anything more than I'm doing right Now what I do like to do, and I think this is where I've evolved as a human, is I do like to give gratitude and share space with myself that where I am right now is where I'm supposed to We. Down to, I am supposed to be talking to Brad on his podcast today, January 24th, like, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and appreciating that more and feeling all the feels that come with that.

Brad Shreve:
Well, I'm glad that's what you're doing right now, Jim.

Jim Fielding:
My pleasure.

Brad Shreve:
As I said earlier, the subtitle of your book is A Queer Executive's Journey to Living and Leading Authentically. And I know there was a time when you didn't live authentically.

Jim Fielding:
Oh, yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Explain what that means and what was it like for you.

Jim Fielding:
Yeah. I mean, I didn't I didn't come out, you know, the almighty coming out story to my family until I was 26 years old. And so I knew from a very young age that I was gay. I didn't necessarily know what it was called, but I knew I knew the feelings, and I fought them.

Brad Shreve:
The, looking at boys and didn't know why you were looking at them so long?

Jim Fielding:
Yeah. It's a yeah. Like, why, yeah, why does that feel better than looking at the girls and The crushes and the confusion and the insecurities and the self loathing and the The trying to get fixed, you know, I I write in the book about mental health struggles that I had with it and Things that I consider that are not so great. So I, you know, I spent really the beginning of my life, say from 7 until 26, Feeling broken, feeling other, feeling like I needed to get fixed. And I think when I embraced my truth and owned it to myself and then started owning it with friends and ultimately with my family, my life and my career trajectory changed Because I I think I became a more fully formed human being because I was bringing the best of me completely. And that included, you know, the year I told my dad that My dad and I did not talk. We only communicated by letters. He would not talk to me.

Jim Fielding:
I thought I had lost My dad, I thought that I had driven a wedge between my mom and dad that was irreparable or irreparable. And I put my sister in a horrible position because I only have 1 sister, and she became my go between between me and my mom and dad. And I and I I felt the burden of not only had I come out and had that burden, but now I felt like I had broken my family that I loved so dearly. So it was dark. There were some dark moments there, but I just kept going. And I got some therapy, and I found some friends, and, you know, I started to find community. And, you know, by the end of my dad's life, he could have been president of PFLAG In his local community, my mom, was always supportive, but I think really started to epitomize that support. My sister has been amazing the whole time.

Jim Fielding:
So but it it wasn't always that way. And I started to have Physical manifestations at 24, 25, stomach problems, migraines, blood pressure problems, that were not normal For a fit person at 24 and 25, and I would sit, Brad, in the doctor's office, and they'd say, well, you know, tell us about your diet and tell us about your exercise. Do you have stress, and I'd be like, oh, no. I don't really have stress. I work well, of course, I had stress. I was living a fake life. I was Changing pronouns. I was telling fake story.

Jim Fielding:
I was lying, you know, about the girl I was dating or the, You know, oh, you know, the person I'm I would say the person I'm dating doesn't really wanna come to these work functions. Like, I was lying constantly, to friends, to myself, and, it changed when I stopped that and fully embraced who I was.

Brad Shreve:
And I want you to elaborate on that, but I wanna go back to something that you brought up. It it's I'm happy to hear that it sounds like things turned out well with your parents, but It was kinda rough for you growing up.

Jim Fielding:
Very. I thought in Toledo, Ohio, as many people will know Who are my contemporaries? I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only one that felt like this. I I thought I had nobody to talk to. There was no representation. There was no counseling. There was nobody to talk to at school. There was no one to talk to at church.

Jim Fielding:
Like, I Literally was lonely. And it doesn't and by the way, as I write in the book, I became an overachiever, A great student, a student leader, an okay athlete, not a great athlete, but I became a swimmer. I Literally was like, I am gonna be the best at all these other things that I can be at because I felt like I was overcoming a deficiency And that I was overcoming something that was weaker than what I was supposed to be. But I thought success was being married to a woman and having 2.2 kids and a Labrador retriever and a white picket fence and, you know, living down the street from my mom and dad. Like, I thought that's what we were supposed to do.

Brad Shreve:
That is what we were all supposed to do.

Jim Fielding:
Yeah. And I was like, I I I couldn't fit in that story. I I was like A square peg in a round hole, I just couldn't fit. And I write in the book that my parents, god bless them, Just didn't know they birthed a unicorn, and I was throwing out signal. Like, I was throwing out lifelines, Brad. Like, I you know, you read the book. I was like, I went I made my mother, for your listeners, take me to an ear, nose, and throat specialist more than once because I thought my voice was too feminine, And I wanted surgery to change my voice. Like

Brad Shreve:
Wow.

Jim Fielding:
That is a yellow flag on the field. If not a red flag. And god bless my mother. She took me. Right? And we were right up to the edge of surgery to, like, shorten my vocal cords and roughen them up, and we pulled back. But that was a cry for help. Right? That was, you know, I was getting bullied. I I was getting mentally, emotionally, physically bullied, and I thought if I had a more butch voice, that would solve everything.

Jim Fielding:
I mean, how in hindsight but that was a 16 year old, a 17 year old. Like, your frontal cortex isn't fully formed. I was making weird decisions.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. But I I it's understandable. At that age, if you have an effeminate voice, whether you're gay or not, It's a curse.

Jim Fielding:
It's a curse. No. I mean and it was like a daily thing. Right? Like, it was a daily taunting, being called horrible names at High school being thrown into lockers, horrible. Like and I thought, oh, that's it. Like, in my mind, I was like, I'm gonna fix the voice and all of it'll be fine because I'm not gay. My voice is gay. I'm not gay.

Jim Fielding:
Like Yeah. Right? Like

Brad Shreve:
In your book again, in which is All Pride No Ego, you said and let me find that. You said, I thought gay men were all hairdressers, decorators, or drag queens Mhmm. And that you became the best little boy, which I think many people can relate to. Would you say that idea, as difficult it was, do you think it helped move you forward to the success that you've had?

Jim Fielding:
100%. No. I mean, I, Again, role models matter. Representation matters. Right? And it's no offense against decorators and hairdressers and drag queens. I was just none of the above. Right? And I absolutely think it propelled me because I had something to prove. Right? I I think that best little boy Turned into the best little executive trainee, Turned into the best little junior manager, turned it like, I I think it has driven me and propelled me For so long, and I've had this hunger for external validation or acceptance For so long, I think it absolutely propelled me.

Jim Fielding:
Then I woke up and realized, okay, which one of the chapters is, how do you define enough? Right? Like, how When are you like, oh my god. I gotta get off this treadmill. Like, I'm I'm I'm killing myself, like, you know, pushing, pushing, pushing. But I absolutely credit it. I mean and I think that's that's the growth, what I love about being the age I am now and the process I'm in. Now I see My queerness is a superpower. Right? And I see my queerness as like a destiny thing, and I wear it like a cape, like a superhero cape. You know, after trying for 26 years to change it, now, you know, the last, I have to do my math, 32 years, You know, now I'm like, I you know, not to quote our Broadway song, but I am who I am.

Jim Fielding:
Right? I am what I am. Right? And that's Freeing.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, very much. I didn't come out till I was 35, and I'd been married already. And now I think,

Jim Fielding:
I was gonna say I I could have almost guessed. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
Now I think, wow, I am so what's What's the word I'm looking for? Lucky to be gay. Yeah. I love it. I can't imagine otherwise.

Jim Fielding:
I do too. And and I get asked a lot on the tour and in interviews and stuff, you know, was I a better leader, a better manager because I'm gay? Right? That's a question I get a lot. And I kind of didn't know how to answer it at the beginning because I I think I'm a good leader and manager in general, but now I'm like, no. Yes. It must We. Because gay is me, and, you know, I I talk about bringing the best of me and all of me and authentic me and all that. So, yeah, My queerness, my differences made me a better leader and got me positions of authority and got me, you know, you know, recognized and rewarded.

Brad Shreve:
It kinda goes back to what you said earlier, and I'm paraphrasing probably here. But Yeah. Where you said everything happens

Jim Fielding:
for a reason. Totally. Totally. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Again, very Midwestern. But I yeah. Like, I and, again, I I I never wanna I try never to make the same mistake twice. I try of course, I've made tons of mistakes.

Jim Fielding:
I make mistakes every day, But I try to learn from each mistake and kind of fail forward. I think that's another attitude I carried my whole life.

Brad Shreve:
So you brought up that you did reach the day where you chose to live authentically. And I'm presuming you didn't walk in the door of the office wearing gold lame and saying, I'm gay. No. How did that go, and what was the whole process?

Jim Fielding:
It was the transition from Dayton Hudson to Gap where, I at Dayton Hudson, I was in the closet. And at Gap, I interviewed as an out gay man. But to your point, I didn't show up at the interview wearing my rainbow sweatshirt. Like, it just meant if they asked me in any of the interviews, well, what do you do for fun? What are your hobbies? What, you know, what do you do in the weekend? And if I was like, Oh, my partner and I are on the softball team. Right? Or we're in the gay bowling league, and I would say gay bowling league. And in a weird way, I was almost like a litmus test for the interviewer because if I saw them, like, blink or flinch, I was looking for a company that was gonna let me be me. Right? And I chose the Gap because they were based in San Francisco. I did my research.

Jim Fielding:
I knew the family that had founded the Gap was very philanthropic and very community oriented, and I knew that they had Some policies in place way before other people, like domestic partner benefits and things like that. And so I Accepted the job. I went through the whole interview and accepted the job as an out gay man. It was like this process. So the 1st day I showed up at work, again, When I met my team because I was managing, I got hired as a district manager in training, and so I had, like, 4 stores underneath me. Again, I didn't walk in and say, hi, Jim.I'm your gay new manager.

Jim Fielding:
Right? But I also didn't hide it if it came up in conversation. Right? I didn't. If somebody asked what I did in the weekend, I would say, you know, my partner and I or he and I went, you know, or I'd use his name David, and I'd say, David and I went to the park with our dog. Right? And that was basically my corporate coming out, which was different than my personal coming out. And I never and by the way, once you once you do that, there's no, like, going back. Like, oh, I'm sorry. I, You know, I've changed my mind.

Jim Fielding:
I'm now I'm now I'd like to meet you to meet Linda. Right? No. I mean, it wasn't that wasn't gonna happen. And so, You know, that was 1989 when I went to the Gap, so, I never looked at back.

Brad Shreve:
And we know that Coming out is not a onetime deal. We we talk about like, I came out in 1989.

Jim Fielding:
Yeah.

Brad Shreve:
But coming out is a lifelong process.

Jim Fielding:
It is.

Brad Shreve:
I mean, every time you meet somebody new or every time you get a new job or every time you're in a new situation

Jim Fielding:
Hallelujah.

Brad Shreve:
You have to come out. Yeah. You we're not wearing a shirt that says I'm gay. Yeah. It gets exhausting.

Jim Fielding:
It is exhausting, and I love that you picked up on this. I've been trying to switch even my own verbiage to inviting in versus coming out because I feel like, You know, inviting people in. I read that somewhere, like inviting people into your story. But I love that you say that. And my straight friends, by the way, love them. Allies don't understand this. And I'm like, Okay. Let me put it in the black and white term.

Jim Fielding:
Every situation I walk into, a new restaurant, a new, You know, a hotel, when I'm checking in, business meeting, a new client meeting. I first walk in, and until I Open my mouth and start sharing my story. I am a white male. Like, I have the privilege of being a white male. I understand that. The minute I invite you into my story, I instantly marginalize myself. I instantly put myself into another category. I'm in other.

Jim Fielding:
I choose when to do that. But to your point, it could be 15 times a week. Like, it like, you're you're doing it constantly. And when I moved after 25 years in California, I live in Atlanta now, and I've been Atlanta almost 3 years. I had to make a whole new community. Right? A whole new The dentist, the doctor, the your neighbors, everything. Like, it was you know? And it does get tiring because my neighbors didn't have to come over and say, hi. We're your neighbors.

Jim Fielding:
And, you know, then they'd say, oh, here's our daughters, then say, I I'm straight, and I've been straight since I was born. Right. Like, it's it's different. Right? And and it does get tiring, but it it's all of us. I mean, we're doing it constantly.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. My medical group is through a, it's a community hospital, but it's a religious hospital founded by a religious group. And so every time I go there and I have to, for one reason or another, mention my husband, I cringe a little bit, and they're always wonderful. But there's that still that thing in me that's like Stigma. How are they gonna take this?

Jim Fielding:
Stigma.

Brad Shreve:
Yep. So any words of wisdom for those that find that difficult to to do?

Jim Fielding:
Well, I mean, it's it's a journey. It's not a light switch. You know, I always say it's a marathon, not a sprint. And, you know, the and I realized the world I take I do not take it for granted, like, the community you live in Are the city you live in or the state you live in. There are some very inhospitable places in the world for people from our community, and I'm always super careful, Brad, to say Your personal safety and your personal security is tantamount. Right? It's paramount. So I am not one that's, like, Pushing people out the door. Right? Like, come on.

Jim Fielding:
Join the party. Right? That is not my shtick at all. But I say to people, If you have the ability to embrace your life more authentically and be open, I do think you're gonna have a higher quality of life As long as you can remain safe. I've also talked to people on this tour and in my coaching. If you don't have the ability to be out at work, because some people can't be out at work For whatever reason, then when you get home, I want you to be like RuPaul drag race gay. Like, I want you to Join a gay bowling league, or join a card club, or volunteer at your LGBT center, or volunteer For food delivery for our community. Like, if you have to kinda stuff yourself into that closet for the 8, 10, 12 hours a day you work, When you get home, then I want you to, like, fully embrace who you are to balance it out. I think you understand what I'm saying, Brad.

Jim Fielding:
Right? But If you have to be closeted at home and closet at work, then I really wanna help you because I worry. I do worry then. Because I think it will start to have Physical and man you know, mental ramifications based on my own experience and based on other people I know in my life. Our community is under attack, Especially the last couple years, probably more than I ever anticipated. And I think part of what I've realized I have to do with this book and with my platform now is, You know, I write in the book that just by living my life and telling my story, I become an activist. And I never intended that, but I realized that that's a role I have to play now.

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yeah. Indeed. You you definitely are. Definitely are. You you have that moniker whether you want it or not.

Jim Fielding:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And regarding what you said about coming out and letting in, the very first time I heard that, I interviewed back in 2022 Bryan Ruby, who when he came out publicly, was the 1st or I'm sorry. Not the 1st. The only out while active professional baseball player. He's also a country music singer. And he said, I don't like calling it coming out. I like saying I'm letting people in, and that that is so beautiful.

Jim Fielding:
It's much more positive. And and by the way, I I temper like every other gay man. I have that modulator, You know, that code switcher where I decide when to invite you in or let you in. You have to earn that. I have to feel safe. I have to feel, again, you know, personally and physically safe. By the way, when I was an executive in the Middle East, I was very conscious of my mannerisms, my speech, and everything because I wanted to be respected as an executive in the Middle East and and knew that that was an inhospitable environment for our community.

Brad Shreve:
That must have been really difficult.

Jim Fielding:
It was difficult. It doesn't mean I'm not authentic. It was a self preservation move, A a business move. Like, a respect for the business culture of the people who were hosting me, basically. I didn't feel like I could go into a A country like Kuwait or Qatar or, you know, really anywhere in the Emirates and carry my pride flag. Did I like that? No. But I was conscious of it.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. I mean, this is not nearly to that extreme, but I've had to move up to the high desert here in California, which is probably the brightest red spot of California.

Jim Fielding:
Yes.

Brad Shreve:
And My husband and I, who Are used to just being out and holding hands, we aren't in the closet, but it's tampered down.

Jim Fielding:
I get it, Brad.

Brad Shreve:
We're because it's safe.

Jim Fielding:
I get it. I I moved to Atlanta for the 1st time in my life. I made a move because I fell in love, and I happened to fall in love with an incredible black man. And so not only are we gay, we're interracial in the South. And he's from Atlanta, so he's very comfortable moving in Atlanta. I wasn't as comfortable. And we're very conscious of our body language and our touches and our going to a movie theater or going going to a park. You know, when I first moved, I wrote kind of an opinion piece where it was like the title was, to 25 years in California make me soft.

Jim Fielding:
Because the part of California I lived in, San Francisco, LA, Laguna Beach. Right? Like, gay meccas. I never even thought about it. I assumed everybody was an ally. You know, if they weren't gay, they were an ally, and I you know, free to be you and me. And moving to the south, even though Atlanta is amazing and very gay friendly and a great gay community, You are in the south, and you go 20 minutes outside of the core of Atlanta, and it's a different story. And I needed to put that shield back on. Very similar to what you're saying.

Brad Shreve:
I'll say long before I came out, I lived in North Carolina. I grew up there my teen years and college years. I would go to Atlanta so I could be out, and it does have a great gay community. Back then, it did, which was 100%. 40 years ago, I hate to say, and maybe a little less than that.

Jim Fielding:
Still does.

Brad Shreve:
I'm very happy to say my high school back in North Carolina now has a GSA, which I can't Huge. Even imagine.

Jim Fielding:
Toledo, my high school in Toledo, Ohio has one, and I can't imagine. I I thought if I had a GSA, I'd be the only person in the meeting. Right? Like, I Yeah. You know? And I had my friends, but they didn't know. So no. I I agree. And that that is progress. And even, the face of some of the things we're facing as a community, we do have to stop and celebrate those progresses, like those small wins, Which the GSA in North Carolina or Toledo, Ohio is not a small win, but you've gotta celebrate those wins because you can get overwhelmed with the negativity, you can get overwhelmed with the challenge, and I think you have to bring it back and and celebrate those small wins.

Brad Shreve:
Absolutely. I Few years ago, I was asked to speak at a GSA at our local high school, and I went and I did it. And when I got in the car, I bawled because I couldn't even imagine. I was just so overwhelmed.

Jim Fielding:
Yeah. And and that was you know what that was, Brad. That was generational trauma coming out. Right? That was

Brad Shreve:
Oh, yeah.

Jim Fielding:
That was a cleansing. And I think that's when been, you know, some of my favorite stops on this tour, and, you know, the publicity has been colleges and universities. I did a private high school in in Marin County That I was there for 2 days, 2 two and a half days, and it was phenomenal. Because, again, I thought this could have never happened at my high school. Like, the person that wrote this book would have never been invited to speak at my high school, but, like Are and if I did speak there, I would have been protested, right, or bullied out of speaking. And not only did I speak to students at this private high school, I spoke to the parents' group. And I just thought, wow. Like, how far have we come? And, again, I don't take it for granted because I know that doesn't happen everywhere.

Brad Shreve:
No. Our success is why we're seeing the backlash now. It's a difficult time, and we're seeing the pushback. We're seeing the laws. I don't need to go on, and we all know what's happening. I talk to a lot of people that are just like, I I don't see a point. I don't we fought this long, and I I don't see a reason to continue fighting. You have hope.

Brad Shreve:
Yeah. Why and what can you share with other people? Why should they?

Jim Fielding:
Well, yeah. I mean, I think One of my mantras is may we leave our corner of the world a little better than we found it. I'm convinced That small incremental change matters. You know, I I talk in the book about kindness and how important kindness is. I'm convinced that I don't I don't wanna give up. Right? I'm I'm an optimist by nature, but I'm a realist. And I see green shoots everywhere, and I feel like it's my job now As I'm getting to be an elder in the community, that I have to water those green shoots, That I need to highlight them and celebrate them. And so, you know, whether I do that through my post or through my newsletter or just by Being in community with these people you know, I'll I'll tell you a story, Brad.

Jim Fielding:
I don't know how we're doing on time, but I did I got invited to do a book talk in San Antonio, Texas, and I was invited by a woman named Gina Ortiz Jones, who I respect Incredibly. Of course, accepted, and she coordinated it all. And, you know, it was, like, 4 LGBT groups came together to kind of sponsor the night and take me to dinner and do the book club the whole day. It was unbelievable. When I got to the bookstore, I took an Uber to the bookstore. Five very nice people greeted me and said, hi. We're Are your security detail for tonight? We had security, and they were this unbelievable Veterans for Equality.

Brad Shreve:
Wow.

Jim Fielding:
All volunteers, all vets In these army green shirts with pride flags on them, and they spent the entire evening with me At that bookstore, at the dinner at the restaurant I went to, and said, we have had problems at other LGBTQ events in the city, and that's why we're here. And they traveled all over the South, Texas, Florida, Louisiana, to pride events, to speeches, to book clubs, And all volunteer work. Unbelievable. And and I was like, that is why I'm here. Right? I have to be here Because, by the way, the people who were out there that night, it was an unbelievable feeling of community. And they they loved the book, and we had a great discussion, but they also were taking a risk To attend that appearance, and you can never take that for granted. And I saw that as a green chute. Was I did that make me nervous? Brad, I won't lie.

Jim Fielding:
I was like, I gulped. Right? But we kept going, and I loved that visit. I absolutely loved that time.

Brad Shreve:
Activism doesn't mean you have to pick up a placard and march.

Jim Fielding:
Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I think it's a simple add to being. I I live in a lovely neighborhood where I think I'm pretty positive in about a 100 homes, we're the only gay couple. We go to the cocktail put mixers. We go to the kids' Halloween party. We do it all. And and because I want people to see us as an asset to the community, not a threat, not anything to be pointed at, not anything to be fearful of.

Jim Fielding:
And, honestly, if they have questions, I want them to come up and ask us questions. Right? I mean, we wanna be good neighbors. I like our neighborhood. I want a clean, safe neighborhood just like anybody else. It's not like queer people want dirty, scary neighborhoods. Right? We want clean, safe neighborhoods too. I want our trip.

Brad Shreve:
We improve the neighborhoods.

Jim Fielding:
Totally. I want our trash picked up. Right? If my trash doesn't get picked up, it bothers me as much as my straight neighbor. Right? Like, it's

Brad Shreve:
There's a reason why queer people can no longer afford to live in the castor Are in Boystown in Chicago.

Jim Fielding:
Yes. We we we gentrified it a 100%. We were the pioneers, and we gentrified our way out.

Brad Shreve:
Well, sticking with the positive changes Yeah. What positive changes have you seen in the business world? Are there any hurdles that existed that aren't there or at least greatly reduced?

Jim Fielding:
Well, I mean, I think listen. I, again, I caveat the answer with, it kinda depends on the industry you're in and the geography where you live. But In general, I think DEI initiatives, inclusivity initiatives, belonging departments, The growth of employee resource groups like pride groups and Black Lives Matter groups and Latin groups and women's groups, I see that in corporate America. That did not exist 20 years Are, so I definitely see that, which are basically, like, If you think about it, GSAs we're talking about GSAs at high school. They're like GSAs in corporate. I think corporate presence At pride events. I went to Atlanta pride in October. Coca Cola, Delta Delta must have 800 people marching in the parade with their Delta Pride Shirts.

Jim Fielding:
Right? Major multinational corporations proudly displaying their pride. Did not happen 20 years ago. Right? I mean, did not at all. So, yeah, I definitely see progress. But I think our if our community has learned anything, Brad, is Don't just rest on your laurels and accept that progress because it could all change tomorrow and that you have to keep going. You can't just assume it's gonna happen. And I I watched what happened with the backlash against Bud Light and Target during pride this year, Right.

Jim Fielding:
And Target, who's been an ally of our community for over 25 years, just got vilified

Brad Shreve:
On both sides.

Jim Fielding:
By the far Both sides, the far right and the far left, and it was a horrible, horrible situation. And, again, you just can't take anything for granted. Like, I think

Brad Shreve:
The same thing with Bud Light. You can't go into a bar without a a a flag colored Bud Light sign.

Jim Fielding:
Totally. Totally. And you and I are of an age, Brad, where I remember when we boycotted Coors. Oh, yeah. You know? And I remember when we boycotted Chick Fil A. And, you know, I mean, I We've lived there. So, again, I I think do I see progress? Yes. Do I think that progress is permanent? Never.

Jim Fielding:
I think it's something we have to defend all the time.

Brad Shreve:
So listener, Jim Fielding's book again is All Pride No Ego, A Queer Executive's Journey to Living and Leading Authentically, and I tell my guests that have written books that They're here to share their story and not to tout books. Yes. So I'm gonna tout it for Jim because this is a must read. It I can't wait to finish it.

Jim Fielding:
Oh my god. I'm gonna hire you. You could work on PR with Sean. Love it.

Brad Shreve:
I have never said that about any business book ever because it's not really a business book as I said.

Jim Fielding:
Oh my god. Well, Brad, the biggest favor you could do an author, you know, because you know them all the time, write a review on Amazon or Goodreads, Wherever you wanna write a review, we need reviews. Good, bad, indifferent, we need reviews, and, I really appreciate the plug.

Brad Shreve:
You're very welcome, and thank you for being my guest. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

Jim Fielding:
Total pleasure. Anytime.

Brad Shreve:
Do you enjoy this show? If so, tell a friend because the number one way podcasts grow is word-of-mouth. So pass it on so others can enjoy Queer We Are.