Speaker 1: 0:00

This is Queer we Are. When a movie succeeds, we know who gets the call the actors who star in the film, the producers, the directors and sometimes the writers, and there's nothing wrong with them getting acknowledged for the hard work they do. But the average size of a crew working on a movie is over 550 people and if you're a Spielberg or a Lucas, it can be the size of a small town. It takes a lot to put it all together and a lot of those folks pat themselves and each other on the back. They don't get the stars on the walk of fame. One part of the crew that shouldn't be overlooked are critical to the success of a film. They take a good movie and they make it spectacular and, yes, they get awards, but they're still taking a backseat considering how critical they are to the success of the movie. And not only does Hollywood take them for granted, you do too. Yeah, you moviegoer, and yeah, you TV watcher. Most of the time you don't even notice the hard work they do, and they wouldn't have it any other way. It means they're doing their job. On Queer we Are, I interview fantastic LGBTQ people who are making a difference in keeping the faith, and they don't dodge the adversities we face. They push through them. How about some good news for a change, trying to keep hope alive when the world feels like it's going backwards? My guests help you to keep that spirit.

Speaker 1: 1:29

David was inspired by the movies he grew up with and the composers who write the music for the big screen. It was a dream he pursued and he made it Entertaining you on the screens both big and small. We had a lot of fun talking movies, so how about we just get right to it? My guest once again is David Gonzalez, and I'm Brad Shreed. Don't go anywhere, because Queer we Are. David Gonzalez, you have been a busy man over the years and if IMDb is right which I know it is not always correct you are credited with 32 being as part of Music Department, and then you're credited 28 times in movie, tv and theater. And then you also have productions such as short films and video games, and then your list includes such films as Breathe, working man, dinner in America. Your television includes how I Met your Mother and Switched at Birth. Does that all sound about right? The numbers?

Speaker 2: 2:34

It does. It's wild to lay it all out there. I think IMDb sometimes duplicates things every now and then, so it might be a little pushed up. And actually sometimes I see they're short, yeah, and sometimes they'll put Music Department as main title and then they'll give you another credit under composer for music by, so sometimes they'll duplicate it. But yeah, I've been doing this for a really long time.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Well, you've been busy and kind of an aside that has nothing really to do with our discussion. What I don't understand about IMDb, I know usually the celebrity or credited either they or the agent submits their pictures and sometimes I'm like that doesn't look anything like them.

Speaker 2: 3:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:24

Paul Rudd is an example. I have a huge crush on Paul Rudd, but his pictures I'm like who is that guy?

Speaker 2: 3:30

It's all the makeup. It's all the makeup.

Speaker 1: 3:33

No, no, no, Paula, don't tell me it's makeup, that'll break my heart. Well, I did something that kept me up late last night on YouTube because I found it. I don't know how, but it was perfect for today. Yeah, I've only given fleeting thoughts to the importance of music and movies. Sometimes it stands out more than others. Sure, and I found these. So, to prepare, I watched videos of movie scenes without the music and listen, if you want something kind of fun and fascinating. Wow, it blew my mind. And a few examples. One was Avengers Endgame, the final battle.

Speaker 1: 4:13

Now, that one was kind of good, you know, because it's so action packed and the battle was going on, so I think it was still good, but, man, when the music came on it was so much more Right. The other one was Jurassic Park, and that was the helicopter landing up to the scene where they first see the dinosaurs, the Brachosaurus.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:34

Yeah, now that was decent, but when the movie, when the music was added, it was grand. It just added so much. It was amazing. The last one I watched actually the last of the many I watched I'm going to bring up was Rocky. Yes, and the scene is the running scene. He's running and then they show him practice boxing and he's running some more and then he goes up to the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum and we all know that famous scene where he's raising his hands. Yep, I watched that without the music and it was two and a half minutes of the most painful video I've ever seen. It was so boring and just awful. And him to stand on top of the steps saying yeah, yeah, it's like he looked ridiculous. So you do an important job.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Yes, another good one is the throne room scene from the end of Star Wars when, like, after the Death Star has exploded and everything, and they princess Leia is putting the medals on Luke and Han Solo and R2-D2 is like do, do, do, do, yay, no one's speaking in that whole scene. So when you take the music out, it's so funny, you have to find it. I'll send it to you after.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Yeah, send it over. So I'm curious after watching those, something came to my mind In the silent movie era, music was absolutely necessary, I mean, otherwise it would have been pretty boring. So they had the organ up front or the piano. I'm curious, and this is just probably maybe a guess on your part Do you think it's possible without the silent films that we may not have the music scores today or may have taken longer for producers to say, hey, what if we put music in there?

Speaker 2: 6:29

You know it's. It's really interesting when you think about the history of film music specifically because its origin actually is an opera. And you know, when you think about film, a lot of cinematic ideas are born out of original opera, especially from the silent film era. That was a brand new medium for all of those folks. And what were they watching before they were watching movies? Well, they were going to the opera if they could afford it.

Speaker 2: 7:01

Opera, that was like the thing of the day, and so I think film music was just going to be coming with film, no matter what was going to happen, because opera was always paired with music as well. You couldn't have one without the other, and so it obviously has evolved a ton over the years. You know, each decade you can kind of point to a particular score and be like ah, that's the score that defined that era. You know if it's King Kong, or if it's Chinatown in the 70s or in, or Star Wars, you know there are so many different scores to point to. But I think when, when you do an exercise like taking the music out, they did this at the Hollywood Bowl a couple of years ago also.

Speaker 2: 8:01

The Hollywood Bowl is the like a big outdoor amphitheater venue in LA that seats like 18,000 people, and at one of the John Williams concerts they showed a scene from Indiana Jones. They played it without any music and then they did it with the dun-dun-dun-dun and it's just like amazing the crowd's reaction when you added the music Everyone's cheering. It's just like it brings it to life, and I don't know if I know what the magic is of that that brings it to life, but there's, there's something in our human body that reacts to it that I can't define.

Speaker 1: 8:40

Yeah, because I even watched the Matrix the scene where he goes into, he goes through a metal detector and it's just massive shooting nonstop and I think that film could have done without music, because it's bullets. I mean, it's just nonstop bullets.

Speaker 2: 8:54

I disagree what? I think that that score is one of the best scores ever. I agree. Score yeah, OK good.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Because I watched it without and then I watched it with it because I thought, well, you know, there's so much shooting You're not even going to be able to hear the music. But no, it really did make the scene.

Speaker 2: 9:12

It's amazing to some of the considerations that come into scoring when you have such a busy action scene like that too. There are ways to write around the bullets, there's ways to write around the explosions, so that that way the sound effects, people still have their space, and then we get to do our thing too. So it's just knowing what the frequency ranges of those sound effects are and what will work musically around that.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Now, that is the type of scene, though, where people don't realize that what is making it so good is is the music, like they don't even notice it. But until it's not there, how does that make you feel? Does that make you feel good, or is it kind of like gee, I wish they really noticed the music.

Speaker 2: 10:00

It's funny For me. I feel like every composer has to deal with their ego at some point or another and I always have had the impression that if no one says anything about the music, I've done a really good job In the last few projects. I've seen reviews or whatever and there haven't been many mentions of music and that means that I did a really good job because at the end of the day, people really want to connect with the characters and the story and music is playing a really important part in that, but it shouldn't be the main focus. The story and the character is the most important part of that. Now, in other mediums that might be different. A video game might play a little differently, it might be more personal, but it's interesting how in different mediums, it's still always going to be about the character and the story.

Speaker 1: 11:04

That Star Wars scene in the throne room at the end of the movie that David was talking about, the clip that you can see without the music. I watched it and it is deliciously painful and you don't want to miss it, trust me. And while you're clicking away, I want to tell you I love getting the emails and the messages about how much you enjoy the show, and please keep them coming. They put a smile on my face. But now I'm asking for a favor. Let others know by leaving a review on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to the show. I know life is busy, but you'll encourage others to listen to, and so you know what? Don't do it for me. Do them the favor. That's what's really important. So when you went to school, you majored in film scoring of all the different types of music that you could have gotten into. Yeah, what was the catalyst that made you go in that direction?

Speaker 2: 11:58

So in high school I was trying to always find applications of how I could make the sound of the piano applied to an orchestral sense, and the only medium that I really was aware of that being possible was in film music. I was a huge fan of films like Star Wars and Road to Perdition and Gladiator. Those were all films that were really inspiring to me and basically encouraging me to get into film music. So I wrote for the high school band my junior and senior year under the direction of our fearless music leader, and it was my first time writing for Larger Ensemble. And I just knew Berkeley College of Music happened to just be in my backyard I grew up in Boston area so they were the only school at the time that offered a program in film scoring at the graduate level or not graduate level, sorry, the undergraduate level and so I knew that's where I was gonna go. I applied to a few other spots and it was, just like Berkeley's, the obvious choice for me.

Speaker 1: 13:12

And I'm not surprised that Star Wars is in there. You mentioned Star Wars earlier. It is really hard to imagine Star Wars without the music.

Speaker 2: 13:20

I am a huge Star Wars fan and a huge John Williams fan.

Speaker 1: 13:25

And you know, I think most movies and live TV shows each character has their own music, but in Star Wars it is so distinct yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:33

John Williams definitely implemented the opera technique called Leet Motif, which is motifs or themes driven by characters, and I think that that was also really inspirational for me too. You know just the idea that every character could have their own musical statement when they came on screen, and each time you could change it depending on what their emotion is. If they're sad, we're gonna play Princess Leia's theme sad, For you know. Happy, we're gonna play it happier or more positive. So it just offers so much space to play.

Speaker 1: 14:10

And before the door opens or he comes around the curb. You know Darth Vader is on the way.

Speaker 2: 14:16

Oh for sure, there's those low cellos, you know, and the low bases just kind of glooming over everybody and you know. The same thing with like Jaws is another great example of a film score that tells you a lot of information rather than you know something's there underneath the water.

Speaker 1: 14:37

As soon as that comes on, you're just grasping the handle of the seat in the theater. You know it's coming. Exactly so. These characters have their own theme song. I think the world should be put to music. If that was the case, what song would play when you entered the room?

Speaker 2: 14:56

Oh, my goodness, that's a really great question. I'm first thinking is it something that I've written or is it something that someone else, someone else, has written? I kind of want to go with someone else. You know, I'm going to go with my favorite artist of the moment right now, which is Lizzo, and I'm going to go with about damn time, because I think that that song is just a great anthem for everybody in terms of positivity, and it's just like we're ready. We're ready and I'm ready for what's coming up next, whatever that might be.

Speaker 1: 15:36

That's a great answer. I love that. So back to movies that I couldn't imagine without their score. One of my favorite movies of all time is Breakfast at Tiffany's yes, and Moon River. It just I couldn't imagine it without Moon River.

Speaker 2: 15:53

Iconic, it's just iconic, oh my God.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Yes.

Speaker 2: 15:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:57

And then, without a doubt, the shower scene in Psycho. Bernard Hillman nailed it.

Speaker 2: 16:02

It's a really great score too, because it's all just a string section, so there's no other instruments than the strings in that score.

Speaker 1: 16:10

And the other one is TV. The theme to Star Trek, both the original series and then the really grand next generation, I think fit both of them.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Oh for sure, they're all so equally iconic. Yes, you know, the minute that you hear the da da, da, da, da da, you know what's coming next. Like, there we go, we're in space.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Did you know there are lyrics to the original series.

Speaker 2: 16:38

You know, I've heard that version. I don't remember what the lyrics are, though.

Speaker 1: 16:42

They are horrible. And if you want to know, another is an iconic song for TV series. It's Bonanza, bonanza.

Speaker 2: 16:53

Ah, yes.

Speaker 1: 16:54

And the very first episode. The characters, the father and the son, sing during it, if you can find it.

Speaker 2: 17:01

I will have to find that. That's so funny.

Speaker 1: 17:03

I'm not going to get it exactly right, but it's something like we're going to fight and we got the might bonanza. After the first episode they said let's not do that anymore. Yeah, Amazing. Yeah, and the music just worked perfectly for that one. Yeah. So I'm going to toss it tough at you after this discussion.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:51

Who do you think is the greatest film music composer in history?

Speaker 2: 17:57

Well, I'm biased because I've already said how big of a fan I am of John Williams, and so I think I have to say John Williams. There are other people that I'm huge fans of as well, but in terms of my number one, john Williams has just had such an impact on inspiring my life. He's a lot of the reason why I am a composer and feel the need to tell story through music, because he does it so effortlessly. It's just he's able to express through melody and harmony what is happening inside of a character's mind so eloquently. I am thinking about the last concert that I went to where he conducted the upcoming score to Indiana Jones 5. And it was like he had just recorded it the week before and he was like I'm going to play you guys a little treat right now. It was really funny and it was just such old timey Hollywood score. It's just gorgeous, it's undeniable. But there are others that I'm a huge fan of.

Speaker 1: 19:16

What other ones did he do that we would know I think you may have mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Yeah, so John Williams scored Jaws. Et, jurassic Park, schindler's List, saving Private Ryan.

Speaker 1: 19:31

So he's done a few good ones.

Speaker 2: 19:33

He's done every Steven Spielberg film, so yeah, he knows his stuff for sure. I know he was a busy guy.

Speaker 1: 19:43

What do people misunderstand about you the most?

Speaker 2: 19:49

That's a really interesting question and good question. I think one of the things that I struggle with in this industry is the idea that you should be limited to a particular genre or be what is like a one trick pony, in the sense that if you have had success with a comedy, well then you should only do comedies. The same thing happens to actors. It's almost like typecasting, in a way.

Speaker 1: 20:25

That's exactly what I was thinking of, especially when it comes to character actors, but even primary actors get the same.

Speaker 2: 20:31

Exactly, and so composers, actors, directors, writers, all of us get pigeonholed in different genres and it's really hard to break out of that genre, and I'm struggling myself because I haven't.

Speaker 2: 20:50

I've had success in many different genres, and so I think, in that regard, that's what's hard to define. Earlier, one of our pre-interview questions was talking about like, what is your sound, and I always have struggled with what is my sound, because my sound is a little bit of everything, and it's one of those things that I think a lot of younger composers are still trying to define, especially with the work that we do as working as an assistant with other composers, sometimes working as ghost writers with other composers, you're mimicking other people or you're mimicking what, like I was referencing earlier, the temp score, and so to then try to spend years doing that kind of work and then having to define what it is that you do I also, is hard because I can do everything. There isn't anything I can't do, and that's where it's like I want to be able to do a sci-fi, black comedy. That is a wild genre, but, like, who knows it must. There must be a project out there that does that, because I'd be perfect for it.

Speaker 1: 22:06

I can't think of one. I can't think of one.

Speaker 2: 22:09

I can think of Mars Attacks. That's the one.

Speaker 1: 22:37

So times are tough for the LGBTQ community. Yeah, what keeps you motivated and moving forward, and also any thoughts on what we should be doing.

Speaker 2: 22:49

You know we haven't touched upon this genre yet. Documentaries are a really important part of film, and I love working on documentaries also. I've had the chance to work on it quite a few over the years, from things that are about the Holocaust to things that are about trees. It runs the gamut of information, and what I love about it is you're telling a real story. It's not made, there's nothing made up about it, and a film that comes to my mind that's really important for the LGBTQ community is Paris is Burning, which I'm sure most of your listeners are familiar with, but it's worth revisiting, and I think I would love to work on more documentaries that lift voices of those who don't have the opportunity to speak loudly. You know, the most recent Oscar-winning film for the documentary was about Navalny in Russia, who's currently in jail for speaking out against Putin, and so it's one of those things that I think documentary filmmaking can be so important. It's also, unfortunately, one of the ones that doesn't make that much money, because people want the explosions and the big bangs and you know all the effects, but I feel like just having that opportunity to share their stories is going to be so important, but the same is true for all genres.

Speaker 2: 24:27

I think having queer characters that are there not entirely just to be queer, but like they just happen to be queer. You know, it's kind of like what I was saying about being a composer I want to just be a composer that happens to be gay, and not the other way around, and I think that's something that our community is working towards. But there's so many things and people that are against us. Looking at the drag community as an example, right now they're being banned in states across the country from performing, and that's really a scary, scary prospect, and I think education and showing people that queer people are just humans at the end of the day, just like you, is going to be the best thing for us.

Speaker 1: 25:19

And I had Coco. Peru is one of my very first guests and Del Shores was on recently, and so I brought up Trick with both of them and one of the beauties of that film that was so exciting is I hate when I say this, but I don't know a better way to say it it wasn't a gay film. They weren't trying to make a message. It was just a fun romance or a rom-com that just happened to have two gay men.

Speaker 2: 25:44

Yeah, it's so important to just tell stories that are relatable for everybody that you could picture yourself being one of the characters. Whether you're straight or gay or whatever, or ace, like it doesn't matter, you could have that life experience of having to do whatever. Like that's what is a good story. You know, so many bad movies exist of straight people doing a lot of really boring things and like there could be queer people doing boring things too.

Speaker 1: 26:17

Well, and I kind of brought up during the Del Shores episode. Bird Cage is one of my favorite films. I mean, I mean, if there's nothing else we can think of to watch, we'll put that on. But I don't connect to that like Trick. I know those guys. I don't know necessarily the guys on Bird Cage Bird Cage just has great one liners and it's funny. But I know the two guys, even though they were straight guys that played the characters. I know those guys very well.

Speaker 2: 26:46

Yeah, yeah, it's almost like the discussion of like, whether or not straight people should play gay characters. Like there's that kind of discussion and I think that what did you see? The last of us? No, there is this amazing sequence where Nick Offerman is playing a gay character and I mean, I don't want to spoil it but like, oh my God, it is the third episode of this show called the Last of Us, which is a post-apocalyptic zombie show based off of a video game, and the third episode is a standalone short film. Onto its own, that is one of the most beautiful examples of queer love I've ever seen in my life and I highly recommend it, even if you haven't seen, if you're not going to watch the show because it's about zombies. But like that short film all by itself is a testament to what queer love is and I think it's interesting that you know, a straight character can play a gay character so effortlessly and I think that it's possible and it's fine. But yeah, it's an interesting discussion.

Speaker 1: 28:00

I don't have an issue with it. I mean, there were a lot of gay actors that were very upset when Hal Sparks got the lead in Queer's Folk.

Speaker 2: 28:09

But I think it was perfect for that role.

Speaker 2: 28:11

Yeah, and he's cute as can be Right. It's one of those things, I think, when the show itself is maybe trying to be like this is a queer show and about queer people and we're doing queer things, that might be where the line gets blurred. But like a zombie, post-apocalyptic show, you know, being queer is the last of our worries in that world. You know that world, you're just trying to survive and if you happen to be gay, well, that doesn't matter, you're still going to get eaten by a zombie. You know, and I think that that's what's great about that show too, is it just kind of takes away all of the bullshit of race and orientation and bigotry that we have and really lays it on how stupid it is that we as a human species have developed these ideas?

Speaker 1: 29:05

And if you want to see badass queer people watch the last, several last seasons of the Walking Dead I think you have to cast yes Characters.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Yes, yes, I haven't seen that show, but yeah, I need to get into it.

Speaker 1: 29:20

The first seasons are great. As with any, it kind of went on too long, but you know whatever. So it has been great talking to you, and what I'm going to do is in the show notes I'm going to have a link to your website.

Speaker 2: 29:34

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:35

And you do have a good number of samples of your music on the website I do, yeah as well as some of the credits of your film. Mm-hmm. And you have multiple social media outlets, which one is the best one to reach out to you?

Speaker 2: 29:47

Probably Instagram.

Speaker 1: 29:49

That's me too, on the Queer. We Are website on your page. I'm going to have the Spotify playlist embedded there as well.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Okay, cool, awesome, so people can pull that up as well.

Speaker 1: 29:58

That's a quick, easy way to do it. And I like to get people over the websites because I'll have information about you, and that's sort of some of the things we discussed as well.

Speaker 2: 30:06

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 30:07

So, david, thank you so much for being my guest. It was a lot of fun. It's going to be a three hour show.

Speaker 2: 30:12

I know we could just keep chatting all day long. Thank you, Brad. Thank you.