The Dads: Redefining Masculinity through Unconditional Love

Transcripts are computer generated and unedited

Brad Shreve:

This is Queer We Are. A group of dads on a fishing trip in rural Oklahoma may not sound like the most compelling film that you want to rush out to see. But what if I say five of those dads have transgender children, and they are joined by a sixth who is Dennis Shepherd, the father of Matthew Shepherd, who was brutally murdered for being gay 25 years ago. The film comes out on Netflix this Friday, November 17th. It's only 12 minutes long, but for a movie that short, it packs a powerful punch. It's raw. You feel the pain and the struggle and the unique challenges these dads have. But despite all that, the beauty of this film is it will be hard for you not to leave smiling when it ends.

Documentary filmmaker, Luchina Fisher, skillfully takes you through a range of emotions, yet not once do you feel From these fathers, a sense of self pity or helplessness. This is art. Be sure to catch this short documentary because you won't be disappointed. It's this Friday, and while you wait until Friday, You won't have to wait to hear from Lucina. She is coming right up. I'm Brad Shreve. My guest is Lucia Fisher, and Queer We Are.

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Brad Shreve:

Luchina, I lucked out by having impeccable timing. I'm familiar with her reputation as a filmmaker, and yet somebody said you need to talk to Luchina. And at that time, I had no idea you had a short film coming up on Netflix. I'm thrilled and honored to have been given a sneak peek, and I loved it. Thank you for the film.

BWe're gonna talk about that. As near as I can tell, you've been filmmaking since since 2011. Is that right?

Luchina Fisher:

Oh, you've done a little research. Well, thank you, Brad, first of all, for, this Conversation for complimenting me on The Dads, which is my latest. But, yeah, I have been making films for some time, mostly on the side. I actually started, in the nineties when I came back from film school, But probably the one that so many people remember did come out in 2011, my first short that I directed, with actors, Death in the Family, and that was followed by Danger Word, which is celebrating 10 years this year. And, and then, really, my first feature, I didn't direct until, 2020, and that was Mama Gloria, about black trans elder activist Gloria Allen, and, that people can still catch on PBS.

Brad Shreve:

And I did not See, the first movie, I did see the horror film.

Luchina Fisher:

Danger word, yes, with Frankie Faizon.

Brad Shreve:

Very short, very creepy, and not surprising, it had a message.

Luchina Fisher:

My films do. Even, yeah, even the horror film. You know? There's a message there. Right? You know? I do operate from a place of, like, showing love, joy, Hope, the full scope of humanity. These are the things I'm interested in, loss, resilience. But, yeah, even even a genre film, I think, should should have a little message.

Brad Shreve:

I agree a 100%. And I wanna talk some more about the other things that you've done, but let's start with the subject at hand, which is The Dads, And that is coming out on Netflix this Thurs

Luchina Fisher:

Friday. This Friday, November 17th. Yeah.

Brad Shreve:

Friday, November 17th. And for you future people, this is 2023. So I have my thoughts about it, but I want you to talk about The Dads.

Luchina Fisher:

Sure. So The Dads is a is a short, film, a short documentary. It's only It's under 11 minutes, and it's about 5 fathers of trans kids who take a weekend fishing trip with Dennis Shepherd, who's the father of, Matthew Shepherd, who was killed 25 years ago, this year in a horrific anti gay hate crime. And the film is is really about love. It's about unconditional love, You know, particularly from dads, from fathers, and What that looks like, it's not a straight line. It's not an easy journey. It's one where Many of them had to overcome their fears, their own socialization about what it means To be a man, what it means to be a father, but, ultimately, coming to the place of love and support for their kids and and doing what it took to get there. So that is what The Dads is about.

Brad Shreve:

And when you and I first talked, I told you this show, we try to stay on the positive and try to give people hope. And you told me this film fit the bill. And like I said, I was watching it, and I'm getting uncomfortable. And I'm like, What was she talking about? And then when it ended, it felt really good, and I felt really at peace. That's an amazing art. 

Luchina Fisher:

Wow. 

Brad Shreve:

My question is, this was the 1st fishing trip, as I understand, that Dennis took since Matt was murdered. Was it difficult to get him to agree to that as well as the other fathers? Was it hard to find folks to participate?

Luchina Fisher:

Well, so interesting. You know, Dennis did not tell me, before we went That this was the 1st time he had gone fishing since Matt was killed. I didn't learn that until, I think later that day when Wayne, I think, said something, and then Dennis told me The following day when we had our 1 on 1 conversation. You know, interestingly, these are dads that I work alongside, for the Human Rights Campaign's Parents For Transgender Equality Council. So they already do show up for LGBTQ youth, and literally had shown up at a conference Time To Thrive, that is for LGBTQ young people. And while they were there, I overheard Dennis, Wayne and Frank talking about taking a weekend fishing trip or hiking or just doing something out in the woods because they like to do that. They're outdoorsmen. And I thought, this is So fascinating, you know, seeing these different sides of them.

And we're all multifaceted. Right? You know, we're not just one thing, and I think people want to often categorize people as being one thing. But I found it fascinating this juxtaposition between, you know, them talking about the woods and being outdoors and also showing up for LGBTQ youth. And so I asked to come along on the trip, And we got human rights campaign involved and, and 3 other dads, and We all finalized the trip, in March of 2022, when we Took that weekend fishing trip to Broken Bow, Oklahoma. So It wasn't a matter of, you know, dragging these guys there. It was actually like, you know, we had to turn some dads away. I mean, it was hard. You know? Everybody wanted to go.

Brad Shreve:

It was more like, hey can I butt in?

Luchina Fisher:

Absolutely. And I know the dads are excited that there will be a part 2 in that, you know, they're planning another trip, in, 24. And we'll see. Maybe we'll also have cameras, along for that.

Brad Shreve:

What was interesting, I mean, they know they had cameras in their face, but you really could see the healing, and that was very real.

Luchina Fisher:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, that healing is the word today, honestly, and I don't even think that I recognize that was what was happening, not just for them, but it was also healing for me to be there. And and yeah. I mean, I think once we got there, they just They they didn't even ask me about what the process was gonna be. They just, like, dive right in. I was just, like, there with a very small crew, and I was, like, Just, you know, get into the background, you know, get in a a position where you are out of the way, but it didn't matter. It's like they really did Forget that we were there.

I think we had done so much work ahead of time to explain, you know, kind of what it is I was interested in doing and capturing, this experience of these men outdoors and in nature, juxtaposed with their experience of being dads of LGBTQ kids. And so they knew that going in, there was already Trust. There was a relationship, a long time relationship, and lots of love. And so, you know, they really just trusted me, to capture their experience authentically and and to feel safe, you know, that, I wasn't going To you know, this wasn't a gotcha. This is, you know, just really about them being able to show their full selves and being, safe doing that.

Brad Shreve:

Well, there had to be that trust for them to be authentic, and they clearly were authentic. And, listener, if you've never had a camera in your face through your day to day activities, it actually is amazing how quickly You forget that camera is there, or it just becomes part of the norm. 

Luchina Fisher:

Absolutely. 

Brad Shreve:

This is real stuff.

Luchina Fisher:

It's real. These are real people, real journeys, real lives. And when I think, you know, in this moment that we're in, when you think about, like, all the things that you're inundated with Then all the different things you hear to hear authentic Experiences from the people themselves is is a beautiful and magical thing, And you know when you're hearing it because you feel the way that you did, Brad. And that is, you know, what we hope all audiences feel.

Brad Shreve:

You studied journalism in college, and you became a journalist afterwards. But then you did a couple of short fiction films. When you did those, did you have a plan to eventually start doing documentaries, or did that just come about organically? How did that happen?

Luchina Fisher:

Yeah. I mean, I for me, I just love telling stories, and I feel like stories tell you how they wanna be told. I mean, I have told stories in so many different formats. I started a newspaper. I went to magazine. I've written books. I've done radio. I've done television, documentaries, before I did independent features.

So I just feel like it's how What's the best way to tell this story? When I met Gloria Allen, I knew she needed to be seen and heard. She wanted somebody to help her write her memoir. And I was like, I don't need a book project right now, but I think I think we need to preserve your voice. You know, she was in her early seventies, and I'm so grateful that we did, because the film came out in 2020, And, you know, Gloria was able to get on Zoom, during COVID, and then, you know, when things opened up to travel with the film, and, she even went to the GLAAD Media Awards in 2022, When we were nominated, and sadly, we lost her in, June of last year. So she got to get her flowers, right, while she was still living and and to see the impact of her story on the world. And I think that, you know, is the power of film, of documentary in particular. So I just know that some in in some cases, We need to hear from the people themselves, and, that was certainly the case with the dads. It was like, I wanna bust that narrative that dads are not there supporting their kids.

Luchina Fisher:

And, you know, for people who are not who have not been supported by their dads or have been misunderstood, You know, here's an example of what it can look like.

Brad Shreve:

Well, I know you have to go because you've got a really busy schedule. I just wanna say, I know 10 years ago when you did the Danger Word, you had to keep doing fundraisers to get that off the ground. So it's good to see that you're now working with companies like Netflix, and I'm I'm sure you're grateful for that as well.

Luchina Fisher:

You have no idea. And not to mention that it's just it just means that this film is Gonna be out in the world, and millions, millions of people We'll have an opportunity to watch it and be moved and hopefully, change the world through, learning about these fathers. So, yeah, that is that is the power of story, and I'm just grateful to be experiencing this in this moment.

Brad Shreve:

Well, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule. Listener, The Dads is coming out this Friday. Don't miss it. It is amazing how much power is packed in just a few minutes. You don't wanna miss it. And thank you, Luchina.

Luchina Fisher:

Thank you, Brad. It's been a pleasure.

Brad Shreve:

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